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Post by buckfreak on Jun 8, 2005 1:00:57 GMT -5
I have snared alot of coon over the years and I don't think I have had a handful that were "expired" when I got to the set. My question is: Do you think that it is a futile effort to set snares in a lethal manner for coon with a deer stop or is there an effective way to do it? I am referring to the Iowa law. Seems to me that it just "collars" them and leaves them room to breath. I use a kill pole with 5/64 cable and cam or washer locks. Fox are about the same way it seems. Coyotes are able to be put down but, it seems any critter smaller than a coyote is just tied up waitin on ya. Any insights, ideas, or opinions are appreciated. Working on a new system of staking and stabilizing snares that is just as fast as a killpole but alot lighter and easier to hide but it doesn't lean towards being a lethal system just a way to hold em and speed up setting in risk areas.
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Post by coonsnareman on Jun 8, 2005 9:32:59 GMT -5
I'm going to start using the 3 ft. poles with shorter snares this fall. I know what you mean about the deer stops. I would love to try and neck snare everything and have em dead. A deer stopped snare on a foxes neck is like a loose dog collar.
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Post by SteveCraig on Jun 11, 2005 8:34:51 GMT -5
Pretty easy. Get rid of the deer stop. Use a BAD instead. If your law requires the DS, then you are SOL. Unless you want to start using a spring pole of some kind to lift the coon off the ground. Again, more stupid snare laws. It is going to get worse before it gets better. Steve
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Post by buckfreak on Jun 12, 2005 10:22:33 GMT -5
Would rather use a break away but Iowa doesn't give us a choice. Guess we are SOL. A deer stop kinda makes snares with alot of the improvements that are available a moot point on anything but coyotes.
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Post by Snareman on Jun 12, 2005 14:31:38 GMT -5
I discussed this prior at a different forum and had an IA guy say it can't be done... because he has never done it. Because one has never done something before, does not mean others can't do it. I saw this question post right away, but sat on it for a while to see the answers. For the most part, SOL, is almost right on. However, there are some things you can utilize that will help dispatch using a coon using a deerstop setting of a 2 1/2" loop. While I would not say effective, I would say more effective. The first is the crossing log set. Coon gets snared, goes off of log and hangs. Another is a log set or situation where the animal is slightly elevated and you attach the snare to an elevated position having no slack in the snare... just enough for the loop and to anchor. Watch for trails that go by trees. Use a 7" loop 5 3/4"+ off the ground, then anchor snare to the tree, but pull on it sort of hard to remove all slack, then attach it as high as it will go. Make sure the loop does not hang out from the tree. Having it closer to the tree means less slack for the coon to work with and tangle time is faster. On your kill poles, do it almost identical as above. Make sure there is only enough cable for a loop and to attach high on the kill pole with no slack. Longer snares take more time to wrap up and the tendency is for the wrap up to occur on the middle to lower part of the rebar, instead of up higher. If done right on either a kill pole or treee, once a wrap is established, there is no room for target to rest head on ground. By using smaller and higher loop settings, it gives less slack to be wrapped up and entanglement comes quicker. You can also just snare the largest of coon in entanglement, forget to set the deer stop or by accident, "improperly" set the stop at about the 2" mark. LOL! Jesting aside, the above methods will increase your dispatch significantly. Snareman
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Post by 45/70 on Jun 12, 2005 19:30:06 GMT -5
Some of ya'll will probably think I am being pickey, but the term "deer stop" IMO & Ex has been harmful to snaremen. So here goes:
They ain't just deer stops! They ain't deer stops at all! They are simply stops used for what ever is need in a particular circumstance.
The adoption of this term has become a "feel-good" thing with legislators influenced by antis, dog hunters, and others wanting to apply pressure on legislators so that we are limited to less effective equipment.
They are simply stops, and as such, have legitimate uses other than for deer. Examples:
Some one once told me that he used "deer stops" to limit snare marks on coon skins. Would the stops in this case not be "coon stops"?
I build my beaver snares using a stop to limit the loop closure to 6" for otter exclusion. Is this an otter stop?
Many of us build live market snares to limit the loop closure for coyote or fox. Are these then coyote stops, fox stops, or live market stops? What about a similar snare using a smaller loop closure for coyote/fox pups? Are these puppy stops?
Yes, there are many uses for stops. Why label them as something they are not, and run the possibility of placing general, inappropriate limitations on the equipment you might want to use.
What place has a "deer stop" on a mink or muskrat snare? Noting, except to render it unsuitable for its purpose.
Deer stops on beaver snares... . How long has it been since you saw a deer wading a beaver pond?
Some states require that deer stops be used to limit the maximum loop diameter of a snare. How the heck can a "deer stop" limit the maximum opening of a snare. That's crazy! A deer stop limits the closing diameter of a snare for deer exclusion.
When an inappropriate term is used in legislation, then the statute becomes grey, and open to interpretation. This really muddies the water, the hoped for result of sloppy definitions of terms used in the statutes by our enemies.
Let's get consistent. Stops are Stops are Stops -- Not "deer stops", not "coon stops", not "otter stops"
Waugh! 45/70, RKBA !!!
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ADC
Seasoned Veteran
Posts: 335
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Post by ADC on Jun 12, 2005 21:22:57 GMT -5
Iowa regulations say… “ All snares must have a functional deer lock which will not allow the snare loop to close smaller than 2 ½ inches.” So I guess 45/70 is correct they are not "deer stops" they are "deer locks." I am sure they are intended to release hoof caught deer which they do but they have obvious down sides. All in all though I'll take Iowa's snare laws over many other state's laws. We just have to find the best way to utilize the snares we have just like the poor saps who have to deal with cable restraints do.
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Jake
New Member
COON!
Posts: 44
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Post by Jake on Jun 13, 2005 21:49:04 GMT -5
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Post by Snareman on Jun 13, 2005 22:40:54 GMT -5
When my father and I use to hunt together, a trick of ours was to wait in the evenings near a backwoods lakeshore, etc, as deer would come out and wade in the water. I've actually killed a few deer this way. (but haven't hunted this way in years... small percentage)
As for 45/70's comments, many states are calling them limit stops. They either prevent the loop from closing too small or open too large. I call them deer stops because that's the main intention of one when they have to be on a snare and I have to make sure when a client orders snares, that they get what they need. They don't help neck caught deer and livestock, etc.
One thing that peeves me, is that mink and muskrat snares should be allowed... and a dang "deer stop" prevents that.
Snareman
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ADC
Seasoned Veteran
Posts: 335
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Post by ADC on Jun 13, 2005 22:48:28 GMT -5
One thing that peeves me, is that mink and muskrat snares should be allowed... and a dang "deer stop" prevents that. Snareman That is the worst part about them in Iowa IMHO!
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Post by buckfreak on Jun 14, 2005 1:28:51 GMT -5
Have never snared a mink and probably never will because of deer stops. I think it would be a blast. One question snareman. How long are the kill poles you are using with your setup? Well, make that two questions. Do you have much trouble with your poles spinning or do you use some kind of "anti spin" device?
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Post by Snareman on Jun 14, 2005 1:47:04 GMT -5
I'll have to measure my kill poles as I have a sloppy mix and match setup. I mainly use poles for fox, coon and mink. I'm bombarded with 4-wheelers around here and it scares me to pound a 5/8" rebar that has been painted and blended to match it's surroundings only to have a kid or someone come along and run into it. Seems the kill poles come in handy in areas void of entanglement, like open grassy areas, etc,... which are also prime areas for 4-wheelers to travel as well. (I appreciate sportsman's freedoms, but 4-wheelers are a nuisance to me for more reasons than one) My poles are mainly 1/2" rebar of varying lengths, but average is about 4 feet or slightly less... fox and coon.(like extra length for incidental 'yote) I haven't heavily targeted for coon in some while and really miss it. When the farmland zone opens this year for snaring, I'll get to snare a little more. I don't make a habit of the anti-spin because I'm not targeting coyotes too much. I have one that I really like and will post a pic of it some time.
Snareman
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Post by MChewk on Jun 14, 2005 6:52:34 GMT -5
In regards to "deer stops" or limit stops...which design have you guys found to be best....or worst. My opinion is the bent piece of 11 gauge wire as a stop....AS ONE TO AVOID DUE TO FUR DAMAGE! Let me here your advice.
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Post by 45/70 on Jun 14, 2005 9:10:22 GMT -5
Robert,
"Limit stops" is. I think, a good, general term.
It's illegal to kill a deer in water here. Sure, I have seen deer on some beaver dams, and a few in shallow water, but almost none in deeper water, i.e. in swimming and main channels, 4-6 feet off the back of the dam, and slides breaking into into deeper water. These locations account for many of my sets. Perhaps I should have simply said, "in deep beaver water". The point to the statement is to point out (perhaps to a legislator in a face-to-face) how ridiculous and/or un-necessary some of these restrictions are.
Again, we have a lot of otter here, and I build my beaver snares with an exclusion stop for the otters. We are not required by the statutes to use any limit/exclusion stops. I began using exclusion stops as an answer to a problem, as we can take otter only in fur season, and we can take beaver year around. I do not want to see the required use of stops. It should be a matter of judgement on the part of the trapper. It is a way to voluntarly to demonstrate responsibility.
As to the, "best stop". The stop design I am using almost exclusively is the mini stop, except as an end stop. I also install, "limit stops", on the anchoring end of the extension cables I make for my live work, to limit the close of that loop on a, "live pole". Every once in a while, while building these cables, I'll have an unexpected attack of, "part-timerzis" (no, it ain't full blown yet), and leave my stop out of the mix.
Rather than tear the dang thing apart, and start over, I'll use a crimp-on stop when I get to the field. I agree with MChewk about using a crimped on piece of #11 wire as a stop because of fur or neck damage. I'll even extend that statement to cover crimp-on stops in general. In the case described above, the stop is not used on the business end of the snare. Usually for a crimp on I'll use one of two things: (1) a stop sold for this purpose by any one of several snare supply businesses, or (2) a #6 internal lock washer snipped open, fitted on the cable, and crimped shut with a pair of pliers.
My live poles, which are modified kill poles, are all +/- a couple of inches of 5'. These poles are set half their length in the ground. I do not worry about them spinning. In fact, I want them to spin, as this gives me another swivel point. A snared coyote will pull the pole over to approximately a 45 degree angle, but the pole will not (at least I have never had one) pull out. As with a long enough trap chain on a single, long rebar stake, he cannot get an upward pull. I tried targeting fox with a 3/8" pole, but we have too many coyotes for that set-up, and I went to 1/2". (I had a feller ask me once, how I straightened the bent poles. Well, I put them thru a hitch hole in my bumper, and bend them back out).
Adios, 45/70, RKBA !!!
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Post by Snareman on Jun 14, 2005 12:58:07 GMT -5
I agree with that Bill. I often tell guys that if they don't have to use deer stops or break-a-ways, they should consider them in areas of where they is a small chance of having problems with domestics or deer, etc. It's better we do this voluntary to avoid problems in the future or it will then become mandatory.
Good point.
Snareman
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