Amberg BAD's

[Bristleback]

Has anyone had any extensive in the field use of these. In theory these sound like a great option, small and low profile.
My concerns are this:
*As Robert commented on in Kiss's post, the "release" poundage varies from lock to lock? And the release poundage may vary from snare to snare depending upon how much pressure one exerts on the ferrule........comments.......
*How do the Amberg BAD's work with 1x19 cable, specifically in 1/16" and 3/64", in comparison to the 7x7.
Comments please, thanks Bristleback

[45/70]

I bought a quanity of these BADS and the hand crimper for installing them. I bought these BADS for use on swaged 5/16, 7X7, ss cable. or on 1/19 Thompson (brand specific) 5/64 cable, or on 1/9 Thompson (Brand Specific) 1/16. I bought these BADS, so that if at sometime we were required to use them, I would have some idea of what to expect. I am a strong believer in "smaller is better" when snaring, and that's another reason I wanted to give this product a try.
The feller I bought these BADS from was knowledgable, and sent me some hand written directions and some made-up samples for using them.
With the cables I use, he thought that that when using the BAD on on the swaged 7X7 ss cable I should use a shorter BAD and crimp it one time. However, with the 5/64, 1X19 I should use a longer BAD, and crimp it three times. Finally, with the 1/16 1X19 I should use a shorter BAD with one crimp. All of these BADS are correctly sized for cable diameter.
Robert, while I know that you have to use pneumatic crimpers for great consistency, do these instructions sound about right to you. 3 crimps with 1X19, 5/64; 1 crimp with swaged 5/64, 7X7;
and one crimp with 1/16, 1X19?
The one crimp with 1X19, 1/16 has worked well with cats. I have not lost a cat, but neither has the snare been "field tested" by cattle, horses, or deer.
One crimp with my swaged 5/64 ss has held coyotes w/o breakaways, but again the snare has not been field tested.
Three crimps on the 5/64, 1X19 has not been tested either by a coyote or a larger animal. The main reason for this is that this is the cable I use only when my preferred cable is in short supply. Short answer is that I have only tested this BAD set-up in a very limited maner.
The fact that none of these BAD equipped snares had actually been tested by larger animals is in itself (IMO) an indicator as to how few times such a device is actually required.
In the past I have used a method explained by Slim in his first snaring book, and that method
is strand cutting where the lock attaches to the cable. Robert says that this is not as precise a method as the Amberg BADS crimped with a pneumatic swager, and I have no doubt this is true.
However, over a six year period our strand cut snares have released 100% of the larger non-target animals snared ( that's two deer, and one calf), and have not lose us a coyote.
With a straight snare No BAD), as we make them up from swaged 5/64 ss, with our homemade lock, and a limiting stop in the loop, we have never killed a neck snared deer, and have been successful in releasing those deer.
I have not used 1/16, 1X19 cable for coyote snares, killing or otherwise. So I have no comment to make on this particuliar subject. Neither am I interested in killing coyotes. I have had an occasional coyote die in the snares we build; however, there was little sign of snare fighting or torn up ground. I think -- I do not know -- but I think, that these occasional losses are stress related.
For whatever it is worth,
Adios,
45/70,
RKBA !!!

[Snareman]

In order what will hold a better crimp using the compressed BAD's... 7x7, swaged 7x7, then the 1x19... the smoothest surface of all. The 1x19 will need the most compression. Also, you have variables that will come into place too: hand strength on crimping, exact tolerances on the ferrule, exact tolerances on the cable, does the cable have rust, does the cable have manufacturing grease on it, is the cable free of rust and manufacturing grease, etc.

The amberg release ferrules are marketed to have a special hand tool to crimp them. I know of no "pneumatic' crimper designed to use these release ferrules. I do NOT use these ferrules, nor will ever need to. The Amberg BAD's are designed and tested to be used with only one tool... it's a hand help crimper designed for the specific ferrule. Using any other tool will yield extremely different results than advertised.

As for the amount of crimps on each ferrule, 7x7 always takes a better crimp over 1x19, meaning due to the surface structure of the cable, the 1x19's surface is so much smoother that compressed objects slip off easier.

There are so many variables that hasn't even been discussed on my preferred method of BAD, compressions. The problem is the industry doesn't have a standardized way to test BAD's. It would need to be something that about anyone, including the user and DNR officers could do some sort of field test on, but we're far from these standards. Right now as far as BAD's are concerned, it's open season and BAD manufacturers know this. There is no required testing anywhere, so let the buyer beware.

Since I am a professional snare manufacture, I can't use broad strokes and say my device releases deer, timber wolves, similar sized livestock and maybe the largest of coyotes, but keeps everything smaller.... although I would like that. I am concerned about the products I design and advertise certain BAD specs, so in doing so, I have to use a system that is consistant and that I can trust and am proud of using on my product. I have taken over a 100 crimps and autopsied them, ie, cutting them apart, to see how the aluminum striates into the various cables. I'm versed on the cutting and manipulation of strands to act as a break-a-way. It's quite easy and often have described others how to do this. Since each individual or group of strands has certain tensile strength, it's a matter of math to figure how many strands of X it takes to have a desired outcome, but this method is also illegal in some states because a commercial BAD may be required. I couldn't possibly use this technique on my snares because one, it's illegal in some states, two... it is not as precise for me and the products I introduce and 3... it would take too long to take the time to do this to thousands and thousands of snares. For the individual who has the time and it's legal, it's a viable option.

Snareman

[45/70]

Robert,
Thanks for the clairification on the BADS you use, and how you use them. I mistook what you said in a previous conversation between the two of us, and believed that you were using some
sort of pneumatic swager to achieve uniform results. Anyway, sorry for the confusion. You are quite right that strand cutting is for an individual user. It is much too labor intensive for someone selling snares. As to its legality, that is a matter that each snare used must resolve within his juristiction. As BADS are not required here, and I am expermenting with the methods available to me, strand cutting is an option that I will continue to explore. THatks for you expertise.
45/70,
RKBA !!!

[SteveCraig]

I prefer the strand cutting for BAD's. My findings have shown, that snare length is very critical for this method, so using a standard snare length with the different size strands as well as different size cable is needed.

Also animal size needs to be taken into account. What worked great out west on our smaller coyotes, was a disaster on those big 40 to 50 pound coyotes in Indiana. I lost 7 coyotes the first check day using strands that held every western coyote I ever wanted to hold. Uping the strand size worked and still let the deer out with no problem. Experience is a hard teacher.
Steve