Kill rates with camlocks?

[Rod17]

There was a great thread yesterday started by 17kiss and Snareman about slim locks and Amberg BADs. They covered alot of ground in that thread; one of the most imformative posts I've seen.

Snareman raised the issue of examing the catch circle for evidence of the duration of struggle, etc. and it got me wondering whats the kill rate for camlocks vs. camlocks + compressions springs.

We all agree that coyotes do alot of pulling when caught and the camlock is a pretty darn unforgiving lock. It seems to me that even without entanglement, the camlock alone would put down most hard fighting catches. So what is the collective experience of % dead coyotes with camlocks alone (no choke spring) in non-entanglement set-ups?

Whats your % dead coyotes with camlocks + choke springs in non-entanglement? Does the wt. of the spring matter? Length of snare? other factors?

Look forward to getting some feedback. Thanks

Rod17

[MChewk]

Rod, after reading several good posts and emailing some of the better snaremen around I've come to the conclusion that just like trappers using footholds these top notch snaremen are looking for EVEN better systems that kill quicker. Set area destruction due to animal fighting/thrashing can ruin a multi animal set producer. Kill 'em quick and you have a better chance of keeping that set area.
In response to your question about killing quicker...my experience (though limited to out of state) with cams has been outstanding in killing fox and coyotes quick. Haven't done much with kill springs to comment.
I like a long snare..have used up to 12 ft due to tie off problems.

[SteveCraig]

The problem is some coyotes simply learn real quick that if they fight, they pass out! Sooo, they simply quit pulling! Just lay down and wait for you to show up. Most however, fight. In brush, they tend to die quick. In open, use a Loooong snare and give him a chance to get up some steam, and he hits the end of the cable and it is all over at that point. Set area will look like it was not touched. Just dead coyote layed out at the end of the cable. All this is assuming you have him snared around the neck with a camlock.

Personally, I could care less how much the set area is torn up. I just move the snare a few feet/yards down the trail and do it all over again. In fact, most of the time there is no moving up or down the trail as there is already a snare setting there from the getgo.

I like the springs in more open areas. I beilieve they help somewhat, but in brush, I dont need them. When using a drag, I dont need them as I am usually in heavy cover anyway. I prefer camlocks, but some states they are not allowed.
FWIW
Steve

[Rod17]

come on guys. lets hear from some of you.

Thanks

Rod

[Snareman]

My kill rate is over 90% without the springs, a 24 hour check and solid entanglement.

What helps me is I set the majority of my snares in young growth areas or where trails go near a suitable size tree for entanglement dispatch. I treat each set as if it's a kill pole. In fact, you could call it a natural kill pole.

I like to set the loop close to the tree... not have it so far out. I'll set up the support wire first and have it just long enough to hang over trail and support snare. Then I'll open the loop, set height and then anchor the snare as high as I can on that tree which is usually the size of my wrist or lower forearm. Then if it needs it, I'll blend it in or attach some brush to the support wire.

Doing it this way leaves no extra slack that needs to be taken up and quickens the entanglement. With only one wrap the slack is taken up and the target doesn't have any slack to rest his head on the ground.

Good entanglement goes a long way in helping to dispatch the target. Larger trees and whippy brush do not.

Snareman

[levesque]

These are the type of discussions I cannot add to as we have the silly restraint laws but I am enjoying the posts anyways .

[RallySnares]

The way a Camloc is attached to a snare can have at least as much effect as with a spring. By that I mean how you actually attach the cable to the bottom of the lock (and with what) makes a great deal of differance to it's ability to tighten on the animal. Take two seperate snares and put a single stop on the end of one and just bend that end at a right angle to the lay of the cable. This makes a small "journal" for the bottom of the lock to pivot on, and when the lock is put on points away from the lock at a right angle. Now run the cable through the lock where it locks to complete the loop. On the second snare first put the cable through one side of a double ferrule (sleeve) through the bottom of the lock and then back into the ferrule and crimp. Run the loose end through the camloc to complete the loop.Now cinch both snares on your forearm.
One of the major factors in dertermining how tight a snare gets is the amount of surface area a lock/cable/BAD device actually bears on an animals body.With all other things being equal, like snare length, coyote weight, anchoring height, etc. The snare with the ferrule and loop on the bottom puts much more surface area on the animals body and would require a great deal more force to cinch as tight as the other snare. This would also apply to S or J hook type BAD's. A snare with the double ferrule and loop at the bottom is actually very close to putting the same amount of surface area against the animals body as a large washer lock and would defeat the biggest advantage the camloc type locks have (small surface area bearing against the animal). The snare with just the stop has much less surface area against the animals body and will tighten much easier and require less force to do so. The double ferrule would be stronger than the single stop but a correctly crimped stop will far exceed the strength of a coyote. I could make a case for hog snares using the double ferrule but can see no advantage for a snare intended for animals coyote sized and smaller. Just something to consider when choosing a rig.